Posted By Marc Lynch Share

The latest idea making the rounds to break through the Israeli-Palestinian impasse is that President Obama should publicly put an American plan on the table to serve as the framework for final status negotiations. I understand the impulse, rooted in deep frustration over the failure of other approaches and a sense that the window for a peace push is closing (if it isn't already closed). But I don't think it's a very good idea at this moment. If Obama puts a plan on the table right now, Palestinians will likely say that they've heard big talk before and want to see action, while the Israelis will just say no and pay no price for their refusal. And then the administration will have wasted a major card which can only be played once. The President should only put his plan on the table if his team has prepared the ground for it, and has a clear sense of what the U.S. can and will do when the parties say no. 

The argument for seizing the moment to put an American plan on the table is in many ways compelling. Attempts to bring the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority leadership together to commence negotiations have failed, and nobody expects much from "proximity talks." There's a palpable sense of spinning wheels. The endless succession of U.S.-Israeli skirmishes over settlements haven't produced much, the Palestinian side remains as weak and divided as ever, and nobody quite seems to know where to go from here. A bold presidential initiative may seem like a way to rekindle the flames, to give some desperately needed momentum, and to set the terms for pointed, direct negotiations aimed at an agreement. 

But I doubt it would work out that way. Presidential intervention is a precious asset, to be used at a moment when it's likely to make a difference. American credibility on the issue is low because of Obama's failure to win a real settlement freeze from Netanyahu or to impose any significant costs for Israeli refusal. A presidential speech at this point will probably be dismissed across the region as just more words. Netanyahu will almost certainly dismiss it out of hand, and no consequences will follow. Arabs and Palestinians will embrace the high level American involvement they've long urged, but will not make any concessions before they see the Israelis doing so. The moment will come and go, little will be accomplished, and then a card which can only be played once will have been wasted.  

If the Obama team does decide to put its plan on the table, it had better be prepared to do what it takes to make it succeed. There will really only be one shot. They shouldn't expect to get too much traction from the President's involvement, no matter how good a speech or how clearly they signal American preferences. They will have to do better than they've done thus far at anticipating the likely obstacles and at mounting a sustained strategic communications campaign to build Israeli, Arab, Palestinian and international support for a final push for peace. That means thinking through what pressure they are really willing to bring to bear, and it means having a clear Plan B in mind for when the Israelis say "no" and the Palestinians say "wait and see."

I very much sympathize with the instincts of those who want to see the President take the reins and launch a bold, public initiative to push for Israeli-Palestinian peace. Without such an intervention, we may be doomed to another lost year. And it should be a major U.S. priority, linked to broader strategic interests across the region. But I'd hate to see that last card wasted  in a poorly conceived roll of the dice. An Obama speech isn't going to be enough, so if that's the play then it had better be set up right in advance. 

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DEPETRIS@WORDPRESS.COM

6:56 PM ET

April 11, 2010

Administration divided over the plan; wait and see first

From what I've heard so far, it looks as if the Obama administration is going to wait a little longer before they decide to implement an American-led peace push. Some officials in the administration, particularly those involved in U.S. Middle East policy, are saying that the President's main priority is still getting "proximity talks" forward, which would probably be a dismal failure anyway. Of course, I take everything that the White House says with a grain of salt, because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of those issues that can create deep schisms between high-ranking administration officials. Actually, it seems like this is occurring already, with Envoy George Mitchell calling an American plan "premature."

Whatever the administration decides to do, I hope they wait for the proximity talks to fail first. You can only have a final push for direct talks after all other policy options are exhausted first. Doing it now, just as Mitchell and Clinton are trying to get indirect talks back on the table, simply doesn't make sense. Patience is the key here. Look what happened when Obama rushed earlier on in the process...he got rebuffed and humiliated by Benjamin Netanyahu over settlements, and lost a lot of credibility with the Arab public.

http://www.depetris.wordpress.com

 

LIBERALARTSKID

3:40 AM ET

April 13, 2010

" Many elements in the Israel

" Many elements in the Israel government and armed forces are not rational, and may prefer some kind of Masada end game."

Oh how woefully misinformed you are. And the cute thing is, you don't even know it!

 

GHJ

11:26 PM ET

April 18, 2010

Obama's behavior

When Bibi was in the U.S., the President's behavior was as pre-planned as the Palestinian Authority's 2000 Intefada, which was assumed to have been triggered by Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount before the Jewish New Year. Upon investigation, it was discovered that plans for the Intefada had actually begun the previous summer.

 

AEL

2:59 AM ET

April 21, 2010

One person, one vote.

It is time for some American officials to start muttering "one person, one vote".

Then wait and see if the Israelis and PA rush together to try and stitch up an agreement.

If they don't, then at least you have a plan B (i.e. enfranchisement of everyone between river and sea).

 

PRIAPUS_D

7:59 PM ET

April 11, 2010

Israelis and Palestinians act

Israelis and Palestinians act like children, they need an adult to put an end to their disgusting behaviour. I agree that if the American plan is based on a speech by the president hoping that thopse children will come to their senses and act as adults, then this plan will lead to nothing and be dismissed by all parties. But if the plan has more to it than that, like what Brzezinski proposed in his Washington post article, then such plan will have an element of enforceability.
Misbehaving children should not be cuddled and left to do what they want. An adult should guide them to the right path so they won't harm themselves or others.

 

JANBEKSTER

8:43 PM ET

April 11, 2010

Success for the Obama Peace Plan.

Like anyone with cursory interest in public affairs generally, and Middle Eastern affairs particularly, one has heard about the Obama proposed peace plan. To add my own penny's worth of wisdom, one has to say that if the plan is have a reasonable chance of success, the Obama administration must understand : 1) The concept of bridging proposals between the Palestinians and the Israelis, is really a no go approach, simply because history has taught us through the old adage that " bridges in peace time get trampled on, and in times of conflict get blown up".

2) It must show bluntly the Arabs and the Israelis, that the US strategic interest is not one and the same as the Israeli strategic interest; as the case has been for the last almost 50 years. One is not saying that the US, will not concern itself with the future security of Israel, rather, to indicate the difference between the US and Israeli strategic interests. In this respect, if the pronouncements of some of the washington administration personalities, are anything to go by with, then indeed there are positive developments in this department.

3) The Holy Sites in Jerusalem cannot be administered by one religious authority to the exclusion of others. Israel has acknowledged this fact in the wadi Arab peace treaty with Jordan. Therefore Israel must be made to respect the letter as well as the spirit of what it had accepted.

4) The Obama administration wishes to involve the Arab countries in the peace process between the Palestinians and Israel. Indeed for the little I know, the majority of the Arab countries would want to be involved in solving the Palestinian problem, but at the same time, the Arab leaders would want to know the extent of the Washington administration's committment to the peace process with time-tables as well as a clear plan of action. HM King Abdullah IInd of Jordan is in Washington currently, therefore President Obama can have the opportunity to explore what is on his mind.

5) President Obama needs the Arab world behind him in his confrontation with Iran. Politics is the art of give and take, therefore, President Obama must give on the Palestinian question in order to take on Iran. Such give and take is legitimate, given the fact that, after all the Palestinians are the aggrieved party and the Arab countries are threatened by Israel.

6) Some Arab countries do have parliaments, while others don't, irrespective, in both cases, if the Obama administration believes it is as clever as it thinks it is, then it must have realised by now that, Arab politics is no longer a matter of push button from top downwards to get things done. Arab leaders are becoming extremely sensitive to their own publics' opinions. Therefore, President Obama must listen to the wise words of his Arab friends and allies.

7) Finally, and this is the one million Dollars question, is the Obama administration going to take to Israeli possible rejection of the peace plan, to the Security Council under the relevant chapter/s to enforce it?.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

PROGRAMMER.CRAIG

3:22 PM ET

April 12, 2010

hmmmm...

"But I don't think it's a very good idea at this moment. If Obama puts a plan on the table right now, Palestinians will likely say that they've heard big talk before and want to see action, while the Israelis will just say no and pay no price for their refusal."

===

It's so bizarre how in that little snippet a Palestinian refusal becomes the Israelis saying "no". Marc, both sides of the equation have been accusing the other of negotiating in bad faith for decades. And yet, to hear you tell it the Palestinians have legitimate concerns and the Israelis just refuse to even talk. If you're doing Public Diplomacy with stunts like that, then I agree - Obama should shelf any talk of mid-east peace until he can get the people who are doing US public diplomacy all on the same page, and have them clearly understanding what the US message is. Do they have that term in Public Diplomacy? "On Message"? Or is that just for real diplomacy? Both parties would be fools to sit at the table with the US when the US can't even figure out what it wants to do.

 

BUDAHH

6:02 PM ET

April 12, 2010

You guys are all living on a different planet

There can be no peace with Hamas as long as they don't renounce terror and violence, I don't care if they except Israel as a jewish state or not, just as long as they recodnize our right to live in peace.
Did anybody here read the Hamas charter?, they have control of a big part of the palestinian population and they were elected to government by the people,
If you guys are talking about peace with the west bank then maybe possible Gaza, no way right now unless something changes dramatically.
All these theoretical talks about pressure on parties and peace are meaningless as long as we have terror organizations no one In Israel will agree to anyhting,
Maybe Obama should pressure the Hamas if he could, pressure syria to stop supporting them, pressure Egypt to stop the smuggling, pressure the palestinians to stop incitment and naming stuff after terrorists.
Lets make peace between the palestinians then talk about peace with Israelis

 

NICHOLAS WIBBERLEY

11:34 PM ET

April 12, 2010

Chicken & Egg

Relentless and dehumanising pressure on the Palestinians in Gaza is the source of Hamas’ support. You are depriving people of sustenance and then blaming them for being skinny.

 

BUDAHH

4:08 AM ET

April 13, 2010

Nicohlas

That is obviously the reason why the Hamas was created and that is why they like to kill innocents, you are missing the point buddy.
They were acting the same way before the "blockade" and they are acting the same way now. They are shallow murderars and however many excuses you can try to make for them is not going to change that.

 

BUDAHH

4:16 AM ET

April 13, 2010

Nicohlas

Don't forget who elected them for government? It defenitely wasn't the Israelis

 

BUDAHH

9:13 PM ET

April 12, 2010

Definitly J thomas

I agree, but that is simply not the case, Israel only attcked in selfdefense and not just in revengefull way while there is an AGREEMENT, we have no interest in war and we know what attck's will bring from the other side, but when we know about terrorists who are actively planing and in the process of executing a Terror act we have a right to act first in self defense and because you say it ain't so it doean't mean you are right but I guess i can't prove it to you either.

That is dealing with the a minor issue out of the big picture, the hamas broke the ceaseifre and broke the truce, but you are missing or ignoring the main point .
Hamas is a Terror organization who swore to kill all of Israel, they were the ones who were shootiing rockets and practicing terror, and please don't tell me they did it in selfdefense or as a reaction to agression, like I said they had no reason to shoot in the first place we are not in Gaza there was no blockade at the time.

They could have changed the worlds prespective and changed their own life invest in good things like infastructure and education they chose terror and war please don't try to excuse them now, we don't want Gaza we don't want war with Gaza we don't want to have anything to do with GaZA.
Why would we choose to attck them??? For no reason??
For the sake of war??? We like to kill? It is good for our economy? We like to have our soldiers killed?? WHy ?
Think about it we like life and just want live in peace, but we will protect ourselves, and you know that any other country in the world would react in a much harsher way, what would russia do?AMerica? England? France? We are not even going to talk about The Arab world? If any country would have rockets shot at it's civilians for years they would react, I just hope you don't have to suffer from something like it one day,

How can yo ignore how they violently took over the Gaza strip, did you see what they did to their "brothers" , did you see how they threw them off buildings, did you see the cruelty and the murder, what kind of people are these Hamas?

 

RAMIR

12:47 AM ET

April 13, 2010

The truth about Israel.

More than 30 years of illegal occupation, ethnic cleansing, forced ejection and humiliation will cause strong violent reaction.

Lets not forget that the Zionist state was conceived as a result of the Irgun's actions (a terrorist organisation by today's definition) and fueled by its political rhetoric.

Budahh you claim Hamas chose not to build infrastructure. There is no point in investing in infrastructure, when the Israeli military regularly destroys it at a moment's notice, claiming it as a security risk. Palestinians building requests are regularly refused on an apartheid criteria. Armed settlers forcefully occupy Palestinians homes and land.

Please do not compare Israel with other civilised countries.

 

BUDAHH

4:14 AM ET

April 13, 2010

Ramir

Another pathetic attempt to excuse Terror, they don't build anything because Israel will destroy it, who are u kidding? don't shoot from there and don't keep weapons there, why don't we have terrorist in Congo? Or Rawanda those people were very oppressed for years? Maybe it is the Ideology which is the problem here? Muslim Fanatics are the problem they hijacked Islam and turned it into some crazy fanatic religion.
So don't be saying silly things, by your logis there is no point to have any peace or a palestinian state because Israel will destroy it, How about the Palestinians will try to do without terror for a little bit and O gurantee you Israel will do nothing to them but help them

 

BUDAHH

3:22 PM ET

April 13, 2010

LIsten J Thomas

It is not the same and like as estimate that there will be a terror act, it is precise intelligence ,we don't just guess and thinkthey might it is life or death them or us.
So what do you call not breaking the cease fire? We should wait for them to kidnapp a soldier or two, and than we will be able to react, it makes no sense, to wait just for the kosher seal when you know that there is an attack coming. If you are in the middle of carrying out an attck than you are breaking the cease fire although you haven't killed or kidnapped anyone yet.

 

BUDAHH

6:12 PM ET

April 13, 2010

J thomas

Again you keep holding on to these meaningless claims that Israel is the one who broke the ceasefire? Do you have any proof of that or can you show me something????
That is not the point that is what I am trying to tell you, you make me laugh we can't keep an agreement?
If I was a military chief than I would have told you why not ambush them, from what I know there was a tunnel being dug into Israel and it was getting close to the boarder so they had to go in before it was too late and you can't just keep an ambush on somewhere on the boarder, have you been there? when you don't know where and when exactly it's going to come out, so please save your breath with we broke the ceasefire.

I would like you to make a deal with hamas and see where you end up buddy, it is easy to be on the other side and say that we always break ceasefire and are not credible, I would like to see your kids eat rockets for a few years, and than come and talk to me about ceasefire when your civilian population is under attack, why are u ignoring the hamas? It is as if you are giving them the moral equality . They are the reason why there was a war and if anyone has any complaints about the outcome they have one address to go to and it is the Hamas.
You can say whatever you like about how Israel is blood thirsty and wants victory instead of peace, and man you are just talking because you don't know that all the people in this country want peace and not war, you think we just go to war to win, you know what a toll it is on a country, this is a small place, it is hard on the people mothers especially, economy, moral etc... We just go to war to win?..., I wish you wouldn't have to find out what it is like to HAVE to go to war and live under terror .

 

JJH722

3:01 AM ET

April 13, 2010

good post

This is a compelling rebuttal to prevailing thought. I'm convinced, and I hope the administration ends up agreeing. The idea that a speech can't change much has become a talking point for the President's opponents, but to your average schmuck the idea seems axiomatic. Despite something of a consensus out in the real world, the Obama CAMPAIGNS's reasonable faith in oratorical outreach has been unreasonably applied to the Obama ADMINISTRATION's approach to international politics. When it comes to domestic politics, the President's handlers seem to recognize that Obama shouldn't squander his rhetorical gifts by arranging major speeches (i.e., more than 30 minutes--he's talking all day) constantly and appearing weak when they have no effect. However, this argument between presidential intervention or status quo is more about policy than just oratory. It's about the US's credibility--not just the President's. As you say, we should remember our limits and never fall into the trap of believing we can solve something unilaterally when it is in fact a ridiculously complex international issue. Obama might look forward to the 2 year deadline Salaam Fayyad has set to declare independence--this will put tons of international pressure on Israel. It would have an additional effect if Obama were to enunciate an American plan in support of Fayyad when his deadline hits, offering peace in exchange for some land swaps, resolution of outstanding issues etc. Solidarity between the US and Fayyad would put a lot of pressure on the leaders of Hamas in Gaza and Damascus. But a very convincing post. Hopefully Obama will put primary focus on when and if, rather than just if, he wants to announce an American position.

 

BURNINGCHROME

1:56 PM ET

April 13, 2010

US has been doing everything wrong

US has been doing everything wrong and it is the people in the region who are suffering.

The only possible way to get to an end game is to go back to an Oslo style of secret negotiations. A peace agreement is going to have to be presented as a fait accompli.

As it stands now every time there is a hint of progress as is the case with such ridiculous public diplomacy all that can happen is rejectionist forces immediately escalate violence, civil insurrection, or in Israel parties withdraw from the government which collapses progress, and usually the entire process.

Among the problems Abbas and Fayad et al are far to weak to sign onto an agreement much less to even negotiate one.

If things continue as they are and talks eventually were to resume as the US is trying to do it at present. Hamas (also highly likely Hizbollah) will launch an assault on Israel making it impossible for any Arab leader to even be seen in proximity with Israelis much less negotiating a peace deal.

The secret negotiations would have to involve key 'moderate' Arab States who will then force Abbas, Fayad or whoever is running the PA to sign on the dotted line. The PA already severly hobbled would not be able sign on to any such agreement, such as the Clinton Plan by themselves and it would require the strong presence of key Arab Partners.

If US doesn't secure key states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia the moment the agreement might unravel you leave an already very weak PA singularly exposed.

 

YORKE

6:12 PM ET

April 13, 2010

If, after more than six

If, after more than six decades, the Americans can't seem to broker a peace settlement in the Middle East, then it's certain sure that the Israelis can't either. Neither can the Palestinians, the EU, Russia, China, the Arab states, the UN nor any other candidate that might fit the frame.

So, either we all give up on the attempt to finalise a deal or we must search in some other direction for the answers.

Maybe the problem itself can be reconfigured to provide for its own solution. Let us, just for a moment, perceive the situation, not as an unwelcome blight on world affairs but as a puzzle needing to be solved.

And as quickly as possible.

http://yorketowers.blogspot.com

It may be that only an autonamous solution, operating with the barest minimum of human input, can resolve the insoluble, can fully address the matter in a forthright and workmanlike fashion.

In any case, what have we all got to lose?

 

YORKE

6:31 PM ET

April 13, 2010

If, after more than six...

Sorry for typo.

For 'autonamous', please read 'autonomous'.

In too much of a hurry to use my spellchecker. I wonder if 'autonamous' means anything. I rather suspect it doesn't.

 

JANBEKSTER

7:09 PM ET

April 13, 2010

re-after six decades.

If the US continues to "suggest" peace plans rather than, "impose" a peace plan on both sides, of course the Palestinian-Israeli peace issue will continue to rotate in endless circles, because what is acceptable in the minimum for the Palestinians turns out always to be far too much for Israel, and what is acceptable in the maximum for Israel, invariably turns out to be far too little for the Palestinians. If President obama is commited to this peace issue and his administration is serious about it, then there is no escaping the imposing of a peace plan on both sides, and going to the Security Council to enforce it under the relevant chapters. Apart from that, well, your good self would be right Mr./Ms Yorke.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

YORKE

8:32 PM ET

April 13, 2010

President Obama may be the

President Obama may be the likeliest candidate, so far, to fire up a Middle East peace process. There is, however, an underlying factor here that he and the rest of us must face. What constitutes 'peace' in one camp is not necessarily the same as 'peace' in others.

If the conventional route, that of gathering together all the parties associated with the problem and somehow thrashing the whole thing out, is taken, then any meaningful result will be long in coming.

The agendas on all sides diverge far too much for immediate solution. And therein lies the problem.

Any delay in addressing the matter only compounds the situation further and allows whatever progress can be made to become forever hostage to future events. The apple-cart is far too easy to upset in such delicate manoeuverings.

Therefore, a means must be found to stabilise the conflict such that sufficient time, reasonably free of violence, is available to reach an agreement supported by all parties.

A tall order, I know, but one which must be filled before any chance of a settlement can be attempted.

My contribution to that end would be as follows:

http://yorketowers.blogspot.com

John Yorke

 

SAMERLIBDEH

10:32 PM ET

April 14, 2010

Barking under the wrong tree!

Yes, Khari, bring it back to the UNSC where international law recognizes the West Bank as an occupied part of Jordan. There will never be an agreement between the Palestinians and Israelis without direct involvement from Jordan and Egypt. Democratic Jordan, not an absolute Hashemite one, is the only country able to bring peace to the region – since the demographic breakdown. However, the problem is that the liberal media in US still gives its autocratic King a room for false PR as a peace maker.

 

JANBEKSTER

9:39 AM ET

April 15, 2010

Peace, Barking, and Trees.

I can't pretend to understand what your good self is saying Samer, but I am positive that you know very well that, if Jordan and Egypt get involved actively in any plans regarding President Obama's much talked about peace plans, then it would be on the basis of two-state solution to the Palestinian problem; a Palestinian state living in peace with an Israeli state. They would want to know the scope, time-tables and extent of committment of President Obama for the washington administration's peace plan. As for going to the UNSC, it is the only way which President Obama can enforce rather than merely suggest a tow-state solution to the Palestinian problem, under the relevant chapters, which can enforce such a plan. Irrespective of what the US liberal or conservative press may or may not say, HM King Abduallh IInd. is a peace maker and all what is advocated by His Majesty is in line with the fact that, for Jordan the matter of peace with Israel is a strategic choice. The organic link between the Jordanian and Palestinian people, will dictate the future relationship between Jordan and Palestine, and the only hope for maintaining this organic link; as it has always been, is HM King Abduallha IInd.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

BB

7:22 AM ET

April 17, 2010

Sad but pointless

Used to post a bit on forums discussing Palestine/Israel peace plans and studiousy reading the comments/suggestions but now find am losing interest.

Mainly because Palestine has been split in two for nearly 3 years now: ie the division of Palestine has become entrenched as the status quo and that reality is not going to change for the long term forseeable future, if ever.

Ergo, the PA, Israel AND the Hamas jihadis, each and all, have a complete vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Furthermore none has any interest whatsoever staked on Palestinian refugees returning to Palestine. In fact It suits them all very well that they don't.

History has overtaken the peace-plan makers, in my view. The post facto acceptance of the division of Palestine has seen to that. Not a reality that King Abdullah can overcome, I respectfully suggest?

 

JANBEKSTER

10:30 AM ET

April 17, 2010

Regarding the Peace.

There is nothing; personally speaking, which has actually happened or likely to happen unfortunately, that changes my mind about the the fact that, neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are capable of finding together, a solution to the Palestinina problem, ergo the need for the direct involvement of the Obama administration. I would be very glad to be wrong in what one saying. HM King Abdullah IInd. is reflecting the fact that, Jordan is indeed; both geographically as well as demographically the closest to the Palestinians, and is sounding the warning bells, because it still doesn't seem to have dawned on the international community, the danger that the current status quo cannot last very long, and the alternative is a major war which is likely to drag many parties from within and from outside the region into it. I really hope that, President Obama realises that, perhaps the sacrifice of good public relations or/and even the prospects of another presidential term by pressurising Israel, may well be worth the effort. At least he would enter history from its widest doors, after all, it would be one certain way of earning the Noble Prize which he got.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

SAMERLIBDEH

1:09 PM ET

April 17, 2010

what war?

Having been active in the peace process second track for nearly 10 years, I could say that Israel has never been politically constructed to respond to pressure. You just can not enforce a deal this way. And speaking of a regional war, Iran, Syria and Hizbullah will never fight for the Palestinians at this stage. Why would they? Jordan and Egypt cannot afford to annul the peace treaty as their domestic societal elements are in deep conflict with each other as well as the state. The most realistic scenario is that their army units will flee their post similar to the Iraqis in 2003.

 

JANBEKSTER

8:55 PM ET

April 17, 2010

Indeed War.

I may not have your good self's track record in working for peace, or anything else to that matter Samer, but when was it the last time prey tell, Israel was wctually pressurised, especially that we all know the fact that, the US has been identifying its own national interests with Israel for the last 50 years?; save for the brief stance of Sec. baker during Mr. Bush snr. presidency. Let there be pressure in the first place, and then let us judge what works and what doesn't.

I do agree with your good self that, not Iran, neither Syria nor Hizbullah will fight for the Palestinians, but then again they never did in the past, yet, Israel has been involved in wars with its Arab neighbours a score of times since 1948. Wouldn't your good self consider even for a brief moment, that Israel may actually have has something to do with those wars?.

Jordan and Egypt chose for themselves the strategic path of peace with israel, and there are many international agreements and obligations which goivern those peace agreements. However, have you heard of any country; small or big, that would sit calmly and do nothing when its own being is threatened?.

With democratisation, usually internal tensions in one country or another, tend to subside a great deal, once this process of democratisation gets entrenched in the socio-political system. After all, there are no greater internal tensions in the area, more than the internal tensions in Israel.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

BB

11:12 PM ET

April 17, 2010

more war?

"the danger that the current status quo cannot last very long, and the alternative is a major war which is likely to drag many parties from within and from outside the region into it"

The last "war" ie Gaza/Hamas was an Israeli punitive expedition to impose limitations on Hamas which was backed by the PA. Would King Abdullah have been dismayed by the outcome?

The war before that, ie Lebanon, was provoked by Hezbollah entering Israel itself and killing 3 Israeli soldiers on Israeli soil. Was King Abdullah dismayed by the outcome of that war?

And the "war" immediately before Lebanon was another Israeli punitive expedition into Gaza, this one provoked by Hamas when it entered Israel itself, killed 2 Israeli soldiers on Israeli soil and kidnapped Gilad Shalit. Indeed the Hamas action appeared to be deliberately designed to wreck the deal for the unity government between Hamas and PA that was about to be signed. Was King Abdullah dismayed by the outcome of that "war"?

It is hard to see why another major war would break out today? As far as I am aware the beefed up Unifil still stands in southern lebanon? Gilad Shalit is rarely even in the Israeli news these days. There have been no signs that Hamas is planning to attack into Israel again as it did in 2006. In fact the signs are that Hamas is settling for the status quo to maintain its permament control of Gaza and deny elections for a united Palestine.

The King has the best of intentions and an idealistic vision for what the future should be, but like his father has to deal with the realities. And one of those realities is that the return of millions of diaspora refugees into Palestine is not in Jordan's interests either?

 

JANBEKSTER

12:34 AM ET

April 18, 2010

Intersting BB.

First of all Israel, has decided to impliment a law passed six months ago which will effectively expel 70,000 Palestinians from the west bank. Where are those Palestinians going to go?. Jordan has declared in the words of King Abdullah IInd. that it will stop the transfer of Palestinians to its territories by force. Second, israel is making threats about the transfer of Scud (more or less obselete in military terms) from Syria to Hizbullah. Both Syria and Lebanon are a potential target. Three, on daily basis there is an increase in violence between israel and Gaza. Four, the current Israeli policies of Judification of jerusalem at one point, ineveitably will leed to the transformation of the conflict into a religious one. Finally, if your good self doesn't see the signs then, you really do not know about war; though you may have covered it in distant lands. HM King Abdullah just like his father late King Hussein recongnise necessity and the need to act upon it. Idealism is not something to be ashamed of, but if syncism is called nowadays "things as they are" well, they will never be. Peace in the Middle east is a collective responsibility, and HM King Abdullah IInd, is acting according to the Arab Peace Plan.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

JANBEKSTER

10:14 AM ET

April 18, 2010

By the by, gates and Iran.

It seems, and according to the NY Times today, (I am not sure because I got the information second hand) a memo from Sec. Gates reveals that the Obama administration doesn't have any effective strategy to deal with the Iranian nuclear programme. This takes one back to one's old suspicions which I wrote about before, that President Obama intends to follow the diplomatic path until such a time that, it becomes impossible to tackle Iran militarily. (not that tackling Iran militarily is not crazy at the present). However, if this memo of Sec. gates is correct, then it will certainly have serious and negative reprecussions on President Obama's efforts to pursue the Middle East peace process, because it does take away in my humble opinion, a very important trump card from his hand to pressurise Israel. More importantly also, how will Israel capitalise on this information?. Will the Israeli leaders take it into their mind to undertake unilateral military action against Iran, and increase the possibility of a mjor war in the region?. I would venture and say, the Obama administration must immediately clarify this memo, because otherwise, the fate of the Middle East could be resting in the hands of amateurish hands.
khairi janbek.paris/france

 

BB

6:02 AM ET

April 19, 2010

"Finally, if your good self

"Finally, if your good self doesn't see the signs then, you really do not know about war; "

Fact is, the signs for when Israel will go to war are when it is attacked on its own territory and its citizens or soldiers are under threat of their lives. Has been the case with every war Israel has fought, with the possible exception of the ist lebanese war. So I can't see what grounds you have for thinking Israel is about to go to war again? Do you see signs that Hezbollah/Lebanon or Hamas/Gaza is about to attack inside Israel again? As for the scuds, Israel watched the importation of rockets into southern lebanon from 2000 to 2006 and while it threatened, warned and undertook limited retaliations it did not go to war until Hezbollah directly attacked inside Israel itself. In both these actions, Hez and Hamas, it was supported behind the scenes by the PA, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Gulf, was it not?

Re: threatened deportations of illegal workers from West Bank. Personally I believe Israel has no rights to deport anybody from the Territories unless they are running terrorist operations. But I don't see what that has to do with the imminence of another war?

Re: Iran's nukes. Well if the Arabs are worried about this no doubt they will privately give Israel all they help and encouragement they can to do the dirty work and then denounce them publicly when they do. Don't you think?

btw I think the King is ace. Thought the same of his father!

 

BB

9:29 AM ET

April 19, 2010

And also

"Four, the current Israeli policies of Judification of jerusalem at one point, ineveitably will leed to the transformation of the conflict into a religious one."

Personally , as a secular, I believe that when Jerusalem is unambigiously and publicly recognised and accepted as being as holy to judaism as Rome is to catholicism and Mecca is to Islam - by both christians and muslims, their popes, archbishops ,Grand Ayotallahs and mullahs - then Obama might start to get somewhere with a peace plan?

 

SMCI60652

8:58 PM ET

April 20, 2010

Marc on how to punish Israel

I have a bone to pick.

Four times in this short entry you allude to punishments for Israel if Netanyahu doesn't cooperate... but you never spell out exactly what those punishments would be?

Nor do you delve in to what the counter-punishments would be back home during an election year for a Democratic Presidents party.

Perhaps a follow up post is in order? Spelling out precisely what you're proposing.

 

BB

7:03 AM ET

April 21, 2010

"Rome" is my shorthand for

"Rome" is my shorthand for the Vatican which is a sovereign state. It is not part of Italy.

The Saudi government would not give up its sovereignity over Mecca. Nor will Israel, the jewish state, ever give up soveignity over its holy places in Jerusalem. The Arabs contest this. That's why it is relevant to the peace plan.

 

CONNIEHILLIARD

4:03 PM ET

April 23, 2010

Israel Deserves More than Just Another Peace Plan

During sixty odd years of existence, Israel and its U.S. ally have cobbled together more peace plans than the Star Trek Federation, with comparable real world results. Bearing catchy titles like “The Camp David Accords,” “The Oslo Accords,” “The Clinton Parameters,” “The Roadmap for Peace,” “The Saudi Plan,” “The Annapolis Plan,” these agreements have brought only intermittent lulls in a perpetual war. There really is only one way to ensure Israel’s survival and bring peace to the Middle East. But nobody in Congress or the White House, and that includes President Obama with his proposed "new" peace plan, has yet plucked up the courage to utter its name.

In January 2007, a group of prominent Arab-Israeli mayors proposed an end to the longstanding conflict, calling on Israel to redefine itself as a secular democracy, which privileges neither Jews nor Arabs. Their report entitled “The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel,” called for the creation of “a Consensual Democratic system that enables us to be fully active in the decision-making process and guarantee our individual and collective civil, historic, and national rights.”

It is true that no Jewish political party in Israel supports this one-state, also known as ‘binational’ solution. But in the end, Israel’s future will not be decided by Zionists alone, just as it was not created by Zionists alone. The emergence of the modern state of Israel was a global event, melding the interests and needs of traumatized survivors of the Holocaust, Western guilt at failing to open their own borders to Jews fleeing Nazi persecution, Biblical admonitions, United Nations votes, the colonial legacy and warfare.

The Arab-Israeli conflict doesn't need another peace plan. It needs an American president willing to heed the words of Albert Einstein. "No problem can be solved from the same consciousness that created it. We must learn to see the world anew."

 

Marc Lynch is associate professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University.

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